island conversations
podcast series

That's really interesting. I was thinking about when you were saying about this comparative approach, I think this is really important. It's, I think, through this kind of comparison that we can sort of understand the specificities of an island's characteristics. And you will talk to us a little bit about your research in a moment, but I mean this idea that island identities are relational I think is really important. I am myself an islander from a different island, in the Mediterranean, and when I ask myself “what does it mean to be an islander?”, it's a really difficult question to answer. And I'm going to ask you the same question. What does it mean to you to be an islander?

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To be an islander? I attach much importance to this idea of freedom as an islander. I also mentioned the concept of mobility earlier, the freedom to move around, the facility with which we have access to the sea is very important, but it depends upon other factors as well. I mean, it depends upon the interest of the person as well. Some people can be really happy with their life or if they live in the city or in specific parts of Mauritius, they might not really have an interest in the sea. But if I take the example of Rodrigues, which is one of the dependencies of Mauritius, there this concept of the sea, of being dependent of the sea, is very much visible for the islanders. So here we have, if I may say so, because of the diversification of the economy, we have several fields.

As for Rodrigues, it relies much on tourism, on activities related to the sea. Many people still depend upon fishing, for example, upon tourists which come to visit the island because of what it has to offer to outsiders. So it depends upon the perspective of islanders, how they view their surroundings, their natural environment.

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I agree with you completely, it depends on the perspective; it depends on the context as well, where you are. Because, you know, as an Islander, if I'm on the mainland, then maybe I would emphasize my identity as somebody who comes from the island of Sicily - in the case of, you know, if I'm traveling through Italy or in the UK or elsewhere. Whereas when I'm in Sicily, it's just normal, it's just part of who I am, so I don't really reflect on that identity so much. It's perhaps more when I'm away from the island that I'm more aware of the fact that I'm an islander. And you mentioned mobility and the sea, which is something that we will touch upon when we talk about your research, because of course when this freedom to move is taken away, this is a big issue, and it deprives islanders of their human rights - and I'm thinking about the Chagossian population that we will talk about.

Okay, so we've already discussed a little bit about what island life is like, what it means to be an islander, what are some of the characteristics of Mauritius that make it unique. Let's move to discussing about your research a little bit in more detail. Can you tell us a bit more about how has living and working on an island shaped your view of history and tell us more about your research interests, what you're working on the moment?

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Since I joined the University of Mauritius as a full-timer, I started teaching international history in general, but also history of the Indian Ocean, starting with the arrival of European powers in the Indian Ocean, that is from the end of the 15th century. I have worked on the history of several of the islands found in the Indian Ocean, be it Sri Lanka, be it Madagascar or the Mascarene Islands consisting of Mauritius, Rodrigues and Réunion Island. The histories of the different islands in this part of the world share many similarities. I have tried to adopt, tried to study the history of these islands from different perspectives, tried to view the existing material, if I may say, literature on the subject. And I have concentrated actually much of my time has been spent on the study of one of the communities of these islands found in the Indian Ocean, which is the Chagossian community and actually for my PhD I did work partly on the “Chagos affair”, if I may use this term, to try to analyse the legal aspect as well as the social and geopolitical aspect of this whole Chagossian issue.

Overall, my interest is to try to understand the influence of colonialism on these islands of the Indian Ocean because all of them, at least those which were inhabited by people, have been colonized by European powers starting as we can see as from the 16th century. The geographical location of these islands did determine their role in the region, in the Indian Ocean first of all, and did determine, did play we can say a role in the eyes of the colonial or imperial powers. This is essentially because it enables people in general to understand how, for example, the decolonization process of Mauritius is still considered incomplete without the sovereignty over the Chagos archipelago.

We have, we can say, two French départements d'outre-mer in the Indian Ocean. But in the case of Réunion Island and Mayotte, we see that their political status is the consequence of the willingness, we can say, of the majority of the population of both islands. So, there are so many similarities which bind these different islands found in the Indian Ocean or on the southwest of the Indian Ocean in a special relationship. If we talk once again of the Mascarene Islands, so all the islands are of volcanic origin; they had no indigenous population. Imperialism played an important role in the settlement of these islands. Coming to more contemporary issues related to history of the Indian Ocean, we see how two Asian economic superpowers, if I may say so, are connected to this Indian Ocean. India, which is part, which is considered as part of the Indian Ocean, and China, on the other side, which uses the Indian Ocean as an important trade and shipping route. Through my research, I wanted and still want to understand how different imperial powers have played a role in determining the course or the fate of these islands found in the Indian Ocean and how on one side American imperialism still persists in the Indian Ocean in the form of a military base in Diego Garcia, one which is one of the islands of the Chagos archipelago.

So basically, this summarizes what I have been teaching throughout the years actually.

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That's fascinating and you've touched upon many really interesting themes that we can discuss. In thinking about the different kinds of historical trajectories of these islands, what role has geography (the environmental characteristics) played, and how does that play into the historical trajectories that have happened? Do you think the geography of the region has determined which islands have followed different paths?

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Absolutely. I mean, initially, when the European powers arrived in the Indian Ocean, that was the end of the 15th century, their main interest was Asia, the region currently known as India, and some Southeast Asian countries. Τheir main interest was in obtaining some of the resources found in those areas and with time they realized that they needed to have a sort of port of call which would help in the voyage towards Asia. So, they proceeded. Initially, we had, for example, the Dutch powers which took over Mauritius and used it for quite some time as a port of call. Naturally, they could use some of the regions on the Southeast African continent, but they found the geographical location of the Mascarene Islands, for example, to be more appropriate in their journey. Τhis is basically why Mauritius, at least depending upon the sources that we have had up to now, this is the reason why the Dutch colonized Mauritius in the first place. Later on, they became interested in what Mauritius had to offer, for example the ebony trees, and they were also interested in, like I mentioned, using it as a port of call in obtaining fresh water and food for their journey.

Αfter that, after the departure, if I may say that, of the Dutch from Mauritius, the French actually took over Mauritius, the island, and proceeded to give it the name of Ile-de-France. They were already present in what is currently known as Réunion Island now because they wanted to develop a settlement on the island. From 1715 up to 1810 the islands of Mauritius and Réunion as well as Rodrigues and other dependencies were occupied by the French powers in the Indian Ocean and after 1810 Mauritius was actually taken over by the British because of its geographical location.

But we had other factors as well, for example there were corsairs which were based in Ile-de-France, which were attacking the British shipping in the Indian Ocean at that time, so they needed to get rid of this corsair threat, which was hindering their commercial activities in the Indian Ocean with Asia. So basically, they took over the island to secure their shipping lanes, if I may say so. The geographical location of the Mascarene Islands, at least, was really important in determining their future.

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Yes, clearly. And then, do you want to tell us in a little bit more detail about the Chagossian affair? For those of us who've never heard about it, for instance, like very, very simply? I know it's a very complex question.

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Yeah, sorry, I'll try to summarize what the “Chagos affair” is all about. The Chagossians are actually the descendants of enslaved people as well as free workers who were brought to work in the Chagos archipelago towards the end of the 18th century. At that time the Chagos archipelago was one of the dependencies of Mauritius itself, which was a French colony at that time. The main activity on the island was the production of oil. So, they had several copra plantations scattered throughout the islands. The Chagos archipelago consists of more than 60 islands of different sizes actually. So main activity was the production of coconut oil. They also were responsible for furnishing fish, for example, to the main administrative island, which was Île-de-France, eventually known as Mauritius after 1810. These Chagossians were then the descendants of these enslaved people which were brought to work on the Copra plantation. As from 1965, these Chagossians were deported, were forcefully deported or were forcefully evicted from their native land, that is from their land of birth to make place for a military base in Diego Garcia. After the deportation of the Chagossians from the Chagos archipelago, many of them were “dumped”, if I may use the word, in Mauritius and some preferred to remain in Seychelles as well, because the ship which at that time took the Chagossians came to Mauritius via Seychelles. Some of the Chagossians got off in Seychelles while the remaining came to live in Mauritius.

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Sorry to interrupt, can you explain a little bit more about the military base? How did that come about? This was an American military base in the island?

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Yes, so after the end of the Second World War actually, many of the imperial powers, more specifically Great Britain, took the decision to provide independence to many of its colonies throughout the world because of the Second World War and also because of the rise of this concept of decolonization that was becoming more and more popular on the African continent, but in Asia as well. The islands of the Indian Ocean consider themselves as being part of these two worlds because we are surrounded by Africa on one side, Asia more on north, north-east of the Indian Ocean. The islands were also influenced by these decolonization ideas that were brewing towards the 1950s and 1960s. It is in that context that Great Britain took the decision to evacuate its forces found on east of Suez as from the 1970s. At that time, they could no longer maintain many of their military troops in this part of the world. They could no longer sustain many of their colonies, which were no longer profitable after the Second World War. At least many of the colonies were no longer profitable. So, the decision came to evacuate all of their forces east of Suez. This would have left a vacuum, a power vacuum in the Indian Ocean, because they had started decolonizing many of their territories found in this part of the world. We are also in the context of the Cold War, where on one side we had the United States of America, on the other side the USSR, which were trying to influence many of newly decolonized countries.

It is in that context that the United States of America will arrive in the Indian Ocean, will want to replace Great Britain as the “police” of the region, like Great Britain was known for quite some time. So, yeah, it is in that context that that we will have the decision of Great Britain to lease the Chagos archipelago to the United States of America. There were many discussions between these two powers in the context of the Cold War. So it is in that context that Great Britain will proceed to detach the Chagos archipelago, which was one of the dependencies of Mauritius, and to lease it to the United States of America.

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And that's quite a crucial point, isn't it? Because although Mauritius gained independence, they had to give it up.

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Yes, it is. Mauritius actually became independent on 12 March 1968. We can say it is a little bit on the eve of its independence in November 1965 that the Chagos archipelago was detached and a new colony, which will be known as the British Indian Ocean Territory was created at the heart of the Indian Ocean. It is quite paradoxical to think that Great Britain proceeded to create a totally new colony, the British Indian Ocean Territory or the BIOT, at the time when it was proceeding to grant independence to many of its previous colonies.

 

Yes, absolutely, and so I understand that a lot of the legal discussions are concerned over this aspect, that it wasn't really possible or it shouldn't have been possible to do this.

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At that time, yes, it was against many of the UN resolutions at that time. And even the evacuation or the forced deportation of the Chagossians was in violation of their human rights. And there's another issue, for example, it is in November 1965 that the BIOT was created and Mauritius gained its independence in 1968. There were many Chagossians who were born during this period. So, should they have been naturally become British citizens or should they have been taken or their responsibility been taken over by the newly independent Mauritian government? Throughout the years, many of the legal battles by some of the Chagossian groups have been to obtain the right either to return back to their native land that is to the Chagos archipelago or to be recognized as British citizens because many of them were born in a British colony.

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Yes, so it's really complex from a legal perspective, but of course there's also the lived experience, the personal and collective trauma that the Chagossians have experienced. And you discuss this in your recent paper published in “Challenges and Prospects for the Chagos Archipelago”, which is a volume published for Routledge, edited by Jeffery, Monaghan and O’Gorman, and in this paper, “Origins, Legacies and Future, the Chagossians: A Population in Exile”, you really describe the sort of trauma that this displacement, this exile has caused the Chagossians. And when I was reading it, I was really kind of struck by many of the things that you describe. For instance, the fact that some of the islanders happened to be away at the time and they were not able to return, or that the dogs were exterminated one day and that the islanders were threatened with their lives, essentially. Tell us a little bit more about what this kind of struggle entailed for the Chagossians.

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Yes, in my article, I illustrate how many of the Chagossians were already in Mauritius at the time when their islands were being evacuated and closed. These islanders, or “Ilois” as they were known at that time, were in Mauritius for various reasons. Either they were here to make purchases or they were here for more advanced medical treatments for them or for their families. The ones who were in the Chagos archipelago were not provided much information. They were simply asked to leave the islands or else they would be killed by the British or American officers who were already in several of the islands. And one of the striking events was, like you mentioned, the gassing of the dogs which belong to the to the Ilois or islanders. And this was used as a threat towards the Ilois.

However, I just want to highlight how the gassing of dogs was quite a normal phenomenon for the islanders, simply because at that time this was the procedure to control the dogs’ population on the Chagos archipelago, but at that specific time this was done to create a sort of fear in the minds of the Chagossians, so they were asked to leave or else they would encounter the same fate as the dogs.

After their deportation in Mauritius, they did not receive much help from the Mauritian government or authorities or from the British authorities, despite the fact that the British did provide a financial compensation, which should have been provided or given to these Chagossians, but this was done much later by the Mauritian government.

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And how did they maintain their islander identity then in exile? Can you tell us a little bit more about this?

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Initially it was very difficult for them to survive physically on the island. Many of the Chagossians had to take up more than one job in order to fend for their families. We can say there was a revival of this Chagossian culture with the start of the legal battles of the different Chagossian groups. When they became aware or conscious of the importance of maintaining this Chagossian identity, initially when they were deported to Mauritius, they were simply trying to remain alive. Because at one point in my article, I do mention the suicide rate among the Chagossians, which was very high for a small community living in Mauritius at that time. After this struggle for survival in a new environment, they started claiming for their rights. They were also rights to return to the Chagos archipelago, rights to obtain some sort of financial compensation to be able to help their families. So it is during this whole process that when they started encountering more people, meeting politicians, journalists and lawyers that they became aware of this. They became aware of how important it was to maintain the identity as an Ilois, as a Chagossian. Eventually with time in the 1990s and up to now, many of the Chagossian families actually take pride in this Chagossian identity and in sharing their culture, be it in terms of the cuisine or in sharing their language or many of the songs that were composed in the Chagos archipelago, because there are many differences in the songs that were composed in the Chagos archipelago and those that were composed in Mauritius. We have Laura Jeffrey who has written a formidable article on this aspect of the Chagossian history. So yes, it was important for them to maintain their identity, to take pride in this identity, and to transmit this identity to the future generation, so as to continue the legal battle as well as the moral struggles that had been started by firstly some of the Chagossian women and eventually there were other generations which joined in this battle.

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And you mentioned the role of women and you mentioned that the islanders have a matriarchal structure in your paper, which I found really interesting. Can you expand a bit more on this aspect?